Wednesday, October 3, 2012

Live Blogging - 1st Presidential Debate of 2012

7:00pm - The debate start's exactly one hour from now. I'm looking forward to hearing these "zingers" Mitt Romney has waiting to throw at the president.

7:55pm - 5 minutes until showtime!

8:01pm - The debate opens. Jim Lehrer is hosting the debate. Obama vs. Romney. Let the games begin.

8:03pm - President Obama and Mitt Romney take the stage.

Economy -

1. What are the major differences between the two of you about your job creation plans?

President Obama thanks Gov. Romney and the university. He is acknowledging that today is his and Michelle's 20th wedding anniversary.

President Obama is discussing that 4 years ago, he acquired a tanked economy. Jobs, the economy have grown. Says Romney's plan of wealthy tax cuts and deregulation are not the way to go. He states his plans of nation building at home. Bringing down the deficit.

Gov. Romney thanks everyone. He gives a congrats to President Obama on his anniversary. He states the economy is a tender topic. Talks about the people he's met who have been sharing their stories. Says the president's plan is wrong. Wants to open trade in Latin America, crackdown on China, balanced budget, champion small business, job training. Says he knows what it takes to get small business growing. Says the current path is unsuccessful. He says he will restore American vitality.

President's response on trickle down -
Improve education, drawing on R and D ideas. Race to the Top program, prompted education reforms in 46 states. 2 million slots in community colleges for job training. Low tuition. Wants to lower manufacturing tax rates. Wants to close loopholes, end incentives for companies shipping jobs overseas. Agrees w. R on American energy. Look towards wind, solar and bio-fuels. Need to close the deficit and how we deal with our tax code and reduce spending responsibly and how to gain revenue for those.

Governor Romney response -
 Says he doesn't have a 5 trillion tax cuts. Would not reduce the taxes paid  by higher income people. Wants to help middle income Americans. Says they've seen their income come down by 4,003 dollars, blames Obama for gas prices and electric costs. Says middle class is being crushed. Wants to balance budget and help small business. He agrees education is key to the future of our economy. Says 47 training programs needs to go to states for job training. Taxation needs to come down for corporations and individuals. He'd lower deductions and credits. Energy is critical. Says upward production is not due to the gov't but the private sector. Says the number of permits and licences is down. Supports coal, the pipeline and drilling in Alaska. His plan says no tax cuts that adds to deficeit. Wants to reduce middle income taxes.

President Obama response -
Cut taxes for middle income families by $3600. We do best when the middle class is. Giving them tax cuts means more money for them to spend. Business make more profits and hire more workers. Says Romney's proposal calls for $5 trillion in tax cuts and additional $2 trillion in military spending. Romney can't identify how he'll close loopholes. All loopholes and deductions the upper income earners make don't add up to pay for $7 trillion in additional spending by Romney's plan. It will have to burden the average middle class family.

Romney response
Says Obama is wrong on his tax plan. He won't have a tax cut that adds to the deficit. He won't reduce the share paid by high income earners. Says he won't raise taxes on middle income families. Says Obama will raise taxes on middle income families by $3-6,000. Wants to lower rates. Says small business pays individual rates. Says 54% of Americans tax at average rate.

Obama response
Romney for 18 months been running on tax plan. Now says his idea is "never mind." Says the fact is that if you're lowering the rates as he says, it's not possible to come up with enough loopholes and deductions to avoid raising deficit or burdening the middle class. Shares idea on supporting small businesses. He lowered taxes for small businesses 18 times. Wants to continue tax rates for families and small business. Taxes on $250,000+ a year go back to Clinton era tax rates. Will reduce deficit, encourage job growth and invest in education and job growth. Small business will not see taxes up. Says Romney's idea of a small business are millionaires and billionaires. Doesn't believe in Romney's approach.

Romney response
Says Obama is right on tax rates. Says 3% of business employ 1/4 of all workers in America. Says Obama wants to take their tax rate from 35 to 40%, Says Obama's plan will cost thousands of jobs. Bring down tax rates, lower deductions and exemptions and that will create job growth.

Obama response
If you believe you can cut taxes by five trillion and add two trillion in additional military spending, over ten years, that's more than our entire defense budget. Closing loopholes and deductions will not work. Math, common sense and history shows that it won't stimulate job growth. Says Romney approach caused slow job growth and our tanked economy in 2008. Talked about Clinton's approach and how it was much better for the economy. Believes economy works best under this approach to economics.

8:25pm - Jim Lehrer is trying to ask a new question and Romney won't allow him. Says he gets the last word. What a jerk.

Question is what are the differences between the two on lowering deficit

Romney response
Says it's a moral issue. It's not moral to spend more than you take in to burden the next generation. Says amount of debt we're adding is wrong. 3 ways to cut - raise taxes, cut spending, grow economy. Says Obama wants to raise taxes. Says that slows growth. Wants to lower spending and encourage growth. Eliminate programs based on whether or not to borrow from China. Obamacare, public television, make gov't more efficient, fire government employees, combine public agencies.

President Obama response
Come into a trillion in debt and a tanked economy. Says he took emergency efforts. Cut 77 gov't programs. Went after medical fraud in Medicare and Medicaid, $50 billion. Cut a trillion in discretionary domestic budget. $4trillion deficit reduction plan. $2.50 in cut = 1 dollar in revenue. Bipartisan commissions. Spending cuts and revenues must be together.

Romney asked on Simpson-Bowles
Said the President should've grabbed it and fought for it. (This is hard, because Romney makes me ill. Ugh.)
Says he has his own plan instead of Simpson-Bowles (I think that's because he doesn't know what it is.) Says he doesn't want to slow job growth.

Obama response
Revenue must be in tune with cuts. Need a balanced approach not only on individual taxes but corporate taxes. Oil gets 4 billion in corporate welfare a year. Want to eliminate oil subsidies, corporate jets. No tax breaks to companies shipping jobs overseas. Deductions exist for companies that send jobs overseas. Help young people afford school. Romney's approach would slow job growth. Romney would enact a 30% cut in Medicaid.

Romney response
Says oil subsidy is really $2.8 billion a year. Chiding Obama for green energy subsidies worth $90 billion. Says Obama picks losers (Romney would know about picking losers.) Says he doesn't know what Obama is talking about in regards to shipping jobs overseas (oh yes he does.) Mentioned Tommy Thompson (Boy he really doesn't want to win, does he?)

8:40 pm Jim Lehrer - Differences between the candidates on Social Security

Obama
Says social security is structurally sound but needs tweaking. Values behind SS and Medicare. How do we strengthen system. Medicare costs need to be brought down. $716 billion saved by not over paying insurance companies and provided. Lowered drugs by $600 and helped strengthen preventative care.

Romney
Seniors depend on these programs. Says he won't change any current or near retirees abilities to get medicare or social security. Younger people however, are effed. Says he can't understand the $716 billion cut on Medicare. Wants to put it back into Medicare, include a prescription program.

Obama response
Says Romney should present plan that will only affect young people. Romney would turn medicare into a voucher program. Voucher would go to seniors and they would have to buy private insurance. The voucher wouldn't keep up with healthcare inflation. Cost seniors extra. Says insurance companies would find ways around to screwing with recipients. The elderly would be at the mercy of the insurance companies.Repealing Obamacare would cause seniors to pay $600 extra in care and large co-pays. Ending free preventative care.

Romney
Supports no change for current and near retiree's. For young people, we would have to choose between Medicare or a private option (this would cause Medicare to go under.) Romney says he'd rather have a private plan. Benefits have to change depending on income. Wants to put competition into the "medicare world."

Obama
Studies have shown Medicare has lowered administrative costs. Private insurers are out for profit. Voucher would cause higher administrative costs. Moving to a voucher system puts seniors at the mercy of insurance companies. If Medicare is gone, seniors are essentially screwed. AARP says Romney plan would weaken Medicare.

Mitt Romney is trying to dictate the direction of the debate.

8:50pm View of the level of federal regulation of the economy

Romney
Regulation is essential. Says his business background helps him understand regulation. Helps the economy. Says we have excessive regulation. Says it's hurt the economy. Says Dodd-Frank has hurt the economy and boosted big banks. Wants to repeal and replace Dodd-Frank while saying he supports some key parts.

Obama
Reason for economic crisis reckless behavior from Wall Street to the housing market. Banks making money and putting out products even bankers didn't understand, knowing it made the system vulnerable. Tough Wall Street reforms. Banks need to raise capitol performance. Made sure all help provided was paid back with interest.

Romney interrupts, says he wants regulation of Wall Street. Says banks are reluctant to give mortgages because of Dodd-Frank's over regulation.

8:56 Healthcare

Romney
Wants to repeal the Affordable Care Act. Says cost of healthcare is prohibitive. Says "Obamacare" will cost $2,500 a year more than traditional insurance. "Expensive things hurt families." (Wow, how philosophical of you, Mitt.) Says business say they are less likely to hire people because of Obamacare. Says it has killed jobs.

(Let him have it on this one, Barack!)

Obama
Says he did work on Obamacare along side making sure jobs are secure. Doesn't mean a gov't take over. Keep your own insurance and doctor but insurance companies can't jerk you around. Have you let you keep your kids on your insurance til they're 26, rebates if insurance companies are spending more on profits than your care. If you don't have insurance, a group plan will help you benefit from a group rate. Says the irony is that this model work well in Massachusetts under Governor Romney.

Romney
Says he likes what he did for healthcare in Massachusetts. Says Obama pushed through a plan with no GOP votes, too partisan. Didn't have a discussion with the American people. Brought up Pelosi and Reid (zzzZZZzzz get a new talking point.) Says it raised the deficit by a trillion. Says a board will tell people what treatment they can get. Says it will cause people to lose their insurance.

Obama
Says Obamacare was originally a Republican idea. Used same advisers. Says unelected board is doctors and healthcare experts who will help reduce the cost of health care in the system overall. Says we can figure out how to make health care more cost effective.When Obamacare is fully implemented, it will show that health care costs will go down. People with already have insurance will get rebates. Says Romney has not given a replacement for Obamacare. No indication that buying insurance across state lines works. Repeal will cost 50 million people insurance. Board does not determine what kind of treatment you get - that's what your doctor is for.

Romney
He says he'll cover preexisting conditions and kids will stay on their parents insurance. Agrees that the cost needs to come down. Says he consulted with doctors and hospitals in the private sector. Health care costs can't come down by a board (ugh.) Says federal gov't is not the right answer. No mandates. Says the private market works best.

Obama
Says the board can't make decisions about health care. That is explicitly prohibited in the law. Says Romney plan would cover preexisting. The truth is that his plan would duplicate what is already the law. Romney law would not help with preexisting conditions. Massachusetts plan is expansion of private insurance. Go after Romney for his lack of a detailed plan on his ideas.

Romney
Called it "Bowles-Simpson." Yeah, that's not what it is. Says he has a plan to deal with those with pre-existing conditions. Says federal government "taking over" health care is not the way to go.

9:12pm  Do you believe that there's a fundamental difference in views on the federal government

Obama
Role is to keep the American people safe. Believes government has capacity to open opportunity to help the American people succeed. Says there are things we do better together. Brings up things President Lincoln did as president that were done by the federal government. Apply the same principals as Lincoln's on the government. Says federal government can't do it all, but can make a difference.

Romney
Says the role of government is to promote and protect the principals of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Doesn't believe in cuts to the military. Believes we must maintain commitment to religious freedom. Is trying to pretend he suddenly cares about the 47%. Must maintain the rights of individuals to obtain their dreams. Says the government thinks it can do a better job than free individuals. Says 50% of college grads won't find work.

9:18 Jim Lehrer Does the Federal Government Have Responsibility to Improve Education

Romney
Agrees with some of Duncan's ideas on education. His own view is that he believes that kids getting federal dollars should be able to go to a school of their choice.

Obama
Has significant role to play. Race to the Top Program initiated positive changes in 46 states educational systems. Says Ryan budget reflects the principals that Romney supports. It would cut education by 20%. Community colleges need support and are doing good to create programs of job training. It needs federal support. Affordable colleges. Low interest rates on student loans. Brings up Romney telling students to ask their parents for money for school.

Romney
Says he won't cut education funding or grants. Brings up the $90 billion in green jobs. Romney has resorted to taking cheap shots at Obama.

9:23 Jim Lehrer Many of the legislative functions of the fed government in a state of paralysis because of partisan gridlock. How would you help change that?

Romney
Says he worked with Democrats in Massachusetts. Cut taxes. As president he will sit down (lol yeah right) with leaders of both parties to see how they can collaborate. Says the deficit will crush the future. Says we need leadership in Washington that will bring people together.

Obama
Says Romney won't be popular with democrats with what he wants to do. Prez says he'll take ideas from anyone as long as it's strengthening the middle class. Brings up different things he has done with bipartisanship. A leader describes exactly what they intend to do with a plan. Occasionally you have to say no to both sides.

9:27 Closing Statements

President Obama
Thanks everyone for a great debate. 4 years ago, our country was in crisis. His faith in the American future is undiminished. Improving education, developing energy, closing loopholes for people who send jobs overseas, investing in our future. Channeling the American dream and everyone is able to get a fair shot and everyone is playing by the same rules. Says he'll fight hard in a second term.

Governor Romney
Says he's concerned about America and the direction it's in. Says it's bigger than them and their parties. It's about the course of America. Two different paths they both have been speaking about. Lead  in different directions. Look at the records. Says Obama will squeeze the middle class, (but he'll apparently bless us all with money.) Wants to repeal Obamacare.  Isn't really talking much about what he will do, but what Obama will do if he's reelected. Brings up the military.

Next debate is Thursday, October 11th.

9:32 The debate ends.

9 comments:

  1. Obama blew it. he let Romney lie and lie. The talking heads are already writing Obama's obituary. I was afraid this would happen. Sad day for the country.

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    1. LOL! It was only one debate, and he did the same thing he did four years ago. Seems to me that worked out pretty well for him.

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    2. Seriously Anon, it was the first debate. You and Chris Matthews need to chill! :)

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  2. I wonder how much Adderall they gave Romney....that seemed a bit (more than a bit) unnatural. And when are they gonna start makin' these guys pee into a cup. Seems like a good idea.

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    1. R-money certainly seemed to be agitated. I was kind of wondering the same thing. Obama, on the other hand could have used a bit of whatever R-money was taking....Obama seemed a bit lethargic.

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  3. Yup, Romney was on uppers, even only if the internally biological kind. And at first it worked, because his comments (while largely content- and truth-free) were smooth and effective, from the standpoint of how they played to this anti-Romney guy. But as the night went on, Romney had a slightly crazed, wide-eyed look about him, and he looked increasingly aggressive, impolite and pushy -- and evasive. Obama was somewhat sonambulent, and I think he could have been more aggressive and less wony overall. On the other hand, when your opponent is busy dismantling himself, why stand in his way? This, in the short run, will be perceived and touted as a Romney win, but as more analysis comes forth re his actual statements (and lack of supporting facts, as in "I have a non-specific, unrevealed plan," I think at best this will have been a draw, or a slight Obama win. And now, going forward, Obama knows how Romney will conduct himself and what to do, if anything, to alter his own approach. It's frustrating to watch Obama try to stand above it all, but I'd rather he erred on that side of a debating style than go all aggressive in return. Remember, Obama was effective on several occasions questioning Romney's approach -- he never specifies, just says he has a plan, which is a recipe for disaster. Obama just needs to perform that kind of summation a bit more often in the next round.

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  4. I didn't watch Donnybrook in Denver as Presidential debates remind me of professional wrestling, complete with the clueless referee (Jim Lehrer) who is distracted while the bad guy fights dirty and breaks all the rules. The fans are dismayed, "Why isn't the good guy fighting dirty too? C'mon Barack, kick him in the nuts!"

    Rather than spending my evening screaming at my innocent television set, I watched the Canadian zombie movie "Pontypool" which was quite good. The premise of the story is that people are turned into zombies by hearing English language words that are infected with a virus, which is actually a fairly good representation of Presidential debates and the pundit bitchs who infect the airwaves.

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  5. Sad state of affairs, politics; especially considering human nature. If one could step back and get an overview you would realize both parties think their candidate came out on top. Both parties believe the other candidate is lying (with no specifics or details,which may be considered liable in court if you have no evidence to prove it)just lashing out. Is it impossible these days to show some respect, one of these guys is going to be our president for the next four years! Are we talking like this in front of our children? What respect could they then learn for the highest and greatest job in this country? The vicious attacks without merit seem very immature and even children see that. It's bad enough we behave like idiots at the schools sporting events where parents resort to brawling. No wonder young people steer clear of and want nothing to do with politics in general. They are afraid if they register to vote they will soon be acting as fools like their parents. I am getting embarrised to be a democrate. It's as if we are admiitting "we can't do it by ourslves, we need government to help, can't do it alone" can we really be that incapable? Gareth, take a deep breath a try to remember...when the "good guy" fights dirty he is no longer the good guy; he's now as dirty as the other guy! It's not kick boxing, hockey or rugby. I'm getting a vision of romans in the collusium thirsting for blood. I had hoped against hope that people had become more civilized. Those who just want to brawl and make a fuss might have a good time at the schools ball game. The rest might recall a quote from Aristotle - " It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." I'm sure this also means without casting asspurtions, stomping your feet and jumping up & down, and burning down your own neighborhood, daaaa. Good luck to the rest of my fellow donkeys, I've had it; going to change my voter card to ind.

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  6. Forgot to add, any part of the above you may dissagree with does not automatically make it a LIE.

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